Why are you so angry?

I've been slowly playing FFXI a lot more recently, to catch up with the content. Since I just left FFXIV, I'm having a hard time adjust to FFXI's community.

Don't get me wrong, there are always good people in FFXI, but most of the time quite a lot of them are pretty elitist, and it's not even real elitism, it's more like holding a specific POV toward certain subject AND having shitty attitude toward anyone else not having same opinion.  Such attitude isn't that bad in FFXIV.(JPs in XI are also a lot more JP orly in XI, but that's another story)

One of the sensitive subject that always evoke ppl's angry attitude is optimal setup for an event.

FFXIV community rarely ever get this angry when it comes to optimal setup. But maybe that's because only speed run needs specific job, and only job that's not usable in endgame atm is warrior. There aren't many ppl /raged when their WAR not getting invite to coil/titan either.

Basically, whenever there's an optimal setup argument in FFXI, it's mostly 1 of the following result:

1. Ppl argued that this content is X job only, Y job is bad and no place for the event. If they see Y job in an ally they /rage.

2. Ppl argued that Y job is good, if someone telling people Y job isn't optimal they enter super saiyan mode.

Personally I'm not sure what's so zomg rage about situation 1 and 2. There's always most optimal setup in any content, what's so hard to accept the fact that your job isn't optimal? And the event may still be clear-able if the setup isn't optimal, why is such the end of the world to use sub optimal setup?

Sometimes sub-optimal job is only a few % behind, sometimes it's way behind but still clearable. Sometimes it's wayyy behind to a point that's going to be very hard. But every optimal setup rager often assume it's either very good or very bad, with no middle ground.

Earlier I made a Tojil PUG, and mist+tremor went off entire time. Then Lahar went off 5 sec after pull on tojil and pt wiped. After the run a stunner blamed me for "inviting 2 BLUs in ally and no RDM". Because BLU should never be in a Tojil ally, despite new BLU magic came from delve bosses.

Let's take a close look at whether BLU can Tojil or not, but based by parse and numbers, not by optimal setup only mentality.

Based on the post few months back:

http://an-empty-vessel.blogspot.tw/2013/09/dd-stuff.html

I got the conclusion of BLU close to 70% of MNK's output and COR around 50%~60% of MNK. That was before Nov update and wasn't using skirmish sword +1. Now BLU can now DW 1 119 and 1 115 sword while MNK weapon remain unchanged. And COR's ultimate weapon(DP) being much bigger increase v.s other job's 119 RME weapon, the gap is probably a bit smaller now.

But just spreadsheet isn't enough, since Tojil attack down aura kinda put req/last stand users at major disadvantage, so let's look at parse.

This was done back in Sept with MPLS, it was 2nd Tojil run of the night, 1st run we done it with SAM MNK x2 DRG BLU setup, then WAR joined 2nd run and parsed.

Tsurumaru SAM: 18.56%
Oat MNK1: 18.36%
Oat MNK2: 18.26%
Razorfury WAR: 18.06%
Upukirex DRG: 15.30%
My BLU with Tojil sword and offhand R15 hala: 11.12%

I did around 64% of MNK, which is about same result as Spreadsheet result....technically 4% lower than what I supposed to do but there's attack down aura(which puts req in major disadvantage due to lack of CDC at that time) and I have no DEX merit, and ended up having 94% acc(My acc is often lowest in ally due to lack of dex merit, I should change merit D:), so 4% difference is acceptable.
I believe a BLU with CDC and better offhand can do way better than I did in Sept.

Since this is 2nd run of the night with 1 extra WAR in ally, that means Tojil is well clearable with Tsurumaru SAM, Oat MNKx2, Upukirex DRG and 1 BLU, with BLU doing 64% of MNK.

The PUG ally that failed had Tsurumaru SAM, Oat MNK x3(with one of them slightly stronger than MPLS MNK), 2 BLU(both better geared than mine), 1 COR/DNC. Not counting Angon bonus, I see entire ally has stronger output potential than MPLS ally.

If 1 BLU is 64% of another MNK, COR/DNC only need to do 36% of MNK to have BLU + COR equal to 1 MNK. 36% out of 52% DPS ceiling.

A MNK x6 pt with 2 COR/WHM is probably around same output as MNK x5+ 1 BLU+ 1 COR/DNC. Those who cleared with DD x6 and 2x COR/WHM saying no BLU allowed because BLU is too weak, never really counting how using COR/DNC instead of COR/WHM can make up the DPS lose?

The issue is that most ppl just automatically assume "there won't be enough DPS if you use X job", without actually knowing exactly how much DPS ally's losing, and whether it's possible to recover the DPS lose.

You know, there's a word to describe such mentality, that is stubborn. Automatically assume X job can't get a spot, without actually go out and analyze how much pt losing DPS when using X job.

Now on to RDM v.s SCH. Unless you're using 1 SCH lowman setup, personally I do believe RDM+SCH> SCH+SCH> RDM+SCH+SCH in terms of efficiency. Since RDM can cover stun and debuff, and still gain access to refresh 2+haste. But debuff is the only major lose, and not really make or break, in the end RDM isn't very game changing. Quit a lot of JP PUG wasn't using RDM even before skill update. It takes a very skilled RDM to actually make a difference in delve boss runs, you know, RDM that can land stun and debuff, and know how to support ally.

RDM at this lv sometimes takes longer than 45 min to find. It's the difference between /shouting for 45min and get nada, or go in for 45 min for 10k~70k plasm. Personally I think leader aiming for perfect setup and spend 45 min making perfect ally while wasting 17 ppl's time is just as bad, if the content is perfectly doable with sub optimal setup. It's same reason why I never /shout for relic +1 BLM WHM PLD for WP speed run in XIV. Relic +1 BLM WHM PLD pt takes 10~15 min to finish WP, NQ PLD random healer+ melee DPS setup takes 25 min. Sometimes it takes over 10 min to make perfect setup WP party and may not even hit 10 min a clear due to various reasons. May as well make a normal pt and spend 25 min on it if only doing 1 run.

That being said, no amount of perfect DPS setup or RDM can recover from repeatedly missed stun. If an ally wipe, it's often not because of pt job setup, but for other reasons.

IMO, using X job or Y job argument isn't the issue. Knowing how much DPS alliance can do regardless the job is the issue. You can beat Tojil with 4 MNK 2 BLU if all 6 DD hitting 90% of DPS ceiling and no major issue on stun/heal/pull, and vice versa, you can use 4 MNK 1 DRG 1 SAM but still gonna time out if everyone only hitting 50% of DPS ceiling with plenty of mistakes. Or you can use subpar DD job and have 2x COR/DNC make up the dmg lose. The point is to do enough DPS in limited amount of time, your setup is just to accomplish that.

Personally I think it's time to put down "best or gtfo" mentality. Instead of arguing what job is best all day long, it's more important to know how much % alternative setup can do v.s optimal setup. And the extra utility sub optimal job can bring.

It's not the end of the world to accept X job is sub-optimal.

It's also not the end of the world to use sub-optimal job unless the content is really, really hard and you can't recover the dmg lose by having 0.5 DD like COR/DNC. Like delve boss before skill update kind of hard.

In FFXIV ppl still wipe in Coil T1~4 all day long, with various setup, despite it's very easy. I rarely see ppl enter super saiyan mode for failing Coil or using WAR or in coil. So really, why are you so angry in FFXI?


P.S: Speaking of which, I need to get CDC myself if I want to learn Tojil spell on BLU :<